Face book has now censored me. Why, because I speak the truth!
I recently became involved in an discussion with a man that attended the same high school I did, at about the same time.
Let me set this up for you because it may be hard to follow but I still think you will find it very interesting read and I really would like your comment on it. It does not matter who you feel is in the right; I just want to hear what you have to say. Please feel free to forward this to your friends and I welcome their input.
I am conservative, and I openly say so. I’m not sure what Marks call himself. We had some good back and forth posts and were in agreement most of the time and then came GUN CONTROL. I have to admit that I no longer have tolerance for the Liberal talking points. I find them illogical, contrary to the facts and spurred on by a need to show compassion and react in some manner, just to show they care. I really believe that they just want to hold the opposite view of Republicans.
Marks post about guns started including conspiracy’s and voter redistricting, you have to take my word on this, it was very one sided, full of anger and attacks on people like the tea party members. He then he attacked a friend of mine, I had a belly full of it and replied very forcibly below; (My words in reply will be in red and his posted words in black. My friend posted my reply because I had un-friended Mark)
I feel sorry for Mark, he has gone completely blind with his agenda and hate fills his sprite in a feeble attempt to cast blame on everyone else. He talks about conspiracy theories and attacks the right for all those and yet in his next breath, makes up his own about how the Republicans are trying to steal voter districts. Now he is off again on a new conspiracy about how those who stand by principle will be the destruction of the country. It is sad and very upsetting to see how one’s mind can be so corrupted and filled with hate and resentment to the point of lashing out at everyone and everything around him. He must feel as many Obama supporters feel, that they know what people need and what they do not need. Just as he states, “cling to weapons even unnecessary weapons” Who gave him or them the right to force their views on America? Yet, when people object to this invasion on our rights, Mr. Mark and those like him, verbally attack the patriotism of those in disagreement with him. Then he twists words and makes untrue statements about how the right wants to abandoned the sick, the old, the poor all for the sake of a dollar. All the facts point to conservatives giving more of their time and money than liberals. The main difference being that the right wants to control how and where they help (stop fraud and waste) and the left wants the government to control how the money is spent. No sane man can point to a government program that is run efficiently as private programs, that is just a fact of bureaucracy! Liberals will not accept this fact. Marks statement that “They believe it is okay to confiscate property from the poor if they are unable to pay for their medical bills.” Is a bold faced lie! He goes on to lie by telling what the right wing believes in, but his view could not be further from the truth. This is very disturbing. I think I sent him off on this tirade when I suggested that voters should own property or pay taxes to vote. The point I was trying to get across is that politicians are getting elected by people who are not contributing to the government but instead are benefiting from the social programs. A Liberal reads into this that I want all old and sick people to die! How does that happen? How can it be so twisted, because that is not what I believe or promote and yet, Mark takes it and runs as far left with it as he can. I have un-friended Mark on FB because I can’t stand to hear a mind that thinks like what he writes below;
“They include people like Bruce Clark, and Trace Turpin. They do not believe the right to vote is an inherent right given to all citizens regardless of race, color, creed, or religion. They do everything they can to stop citizens of this country from registering to vote or allowing them to vote, by creating long lines and illegally purging voting records, and enacting voter registration laws that unfairly tax the poor, the needy, and the helpless. They even claim that those poor should not be allowed to vote as they don’t own “property.” They believe in only registering Republicans, and discarding the registrations of Democrats.” My word!!! Did you read this? His statement is, for the lack of a better word, CRAZY! I refuse to be drawn into defending his lies against me and others. It would make no difference, his mind is closed and dark, his views are unwavering. This is so hypercritical as he writes how the right is “driven by extremists who believe absolutism is a substitute for principles who cling to their absolutes even to the destruction of the country.” And yet there seems to be an “absolute” on his part and that is apparent when you read his writings. No one is putting words in his mouth or forcing him to converse in this manner.
Mark lies again when is writes, “I’m afraid they are taking it back the days of slavery and child labor” perhaps that is not a lie…because he believes it. But who in their right mind would believe such a view? It is beyond silly but at the same time, very disturbing.
“I fear if we do not speak up this is how democracy will end” Mark, is this you making up your own conspiracy or just the view of a paranoid mind?
Mark is not on the same playing field when he attacks Allen about “the anger in the comment that resorts to denigration” My word, does he not read his own words??? Then he twists words and tries to paint Allen as what? Allen pointed to a poll that supports his view but that is attacked by Mark because Allen has said before that he does not trust polls. So? dang, nothing wrong there. Mark is the exact same way! He does not trust Allens poll but quotes one of his own. Do Liberals not take the time to think? How…oh…never mind, it’s like beating a dead horse.
I leave Mark with a note on his last attack on Allen; “And the last part of this post once again is a great example of a conspiracy that only exists in the minds of the extremist like Rush Limbaugh, And I guess Alan”
Allens words where; “The rights to free speech has been trampled on not by the Republicans, but by the Democrats that have been trying to get shows off the air for speaking out against injustice.” I don’t know why Mark calls it a conspiracy. There are attacks on both sides, the right dislikes the liberal media and the left dislikes the right sided talk shows and news like FOX. The president has even attacked both in the last couple of days so Mr. Mark, it’s not a conspiracy, it’s just a fact!
I leave Mark with his own words about himself;
“It is his belief, that in a world of hate and violence it is only a love that is true, unprejudiced, unbiased, unjudgmental, and all accepting that can prevail.” This is on his FB description of himself
Shame he does not live by his own words.
End of post
I really don’t care that I was attacked like I was, I’m sure that my reply to Marks post brought it on and indeed it was meant to get a rise out of him. Still, I had no idea that he would respond with such aggression and lies. It seems that when I pointing out where and how he lied in his reply really upset him.
Well, I saw the post I spoke of above on Allens time line and that is what I replied to. As I had un-friended Mark for the reason I just did not wish to see his posts anymore, I asked Allen to post my reply above to the comments on the subject, I felt the need to defend my friend Allen, he sure did not go over any line or personally attack Mark in any manner and in my modest opinion, Mark needed slapped down for his off the wall attacks on us both.
Below is Marks response to my reply that Allen posted for me; (I will make comments within his post and leave you to your own conclusions)
14 hours ago near Joplin, MO
Recently we had an unprofessional and inappropriate comment made on one of our posts that you may have seen from Bruce Clark. It was posted on our Facebook by Alan Nebeker. Both Alan Nebeker and Bruce Clark are radical right wing TEA Party supporters. (well, I do support the T Party but I am not a member) In typical right wing TEA Party fascism, (he should look up the definition of the words he uses) instead of supporting their positions or pointing out their perceived flaws in the post in a polite manne...r, (or better yet making their points on their own Facebook), they chose to attack character on ours. Alas due to their inappropriate, disrespectful, and hateful behaviors on our Facebook they have been banned from further conversations on our posts by Facebook. (Yes, he got me... I can no longer post what I did above, I have been censored by facebook but Mark is allowed his posts…go figure, seems a little one sided in my view) It should have been unnecessary but due to their apparent childishness and lack of proper Facebook etiquette it was probably a foreseeable consequence. (well, he apparently complained to FB about my reply calling him a liar from his words here) Frankly they appear to just be bullies that never quite grew up, never matured, have little respect for others, and are still living in that high school world where they peaked in life. (Dang, he forgot to add the toys in the sand box part... I think I may be scared for life for what he says about me) They appear to have one standard for others and another for themselves. (ever heard the expression, “I think thou protests to much”) It seems they are attracted to extremism and violence because it gives them an outlet to continue their hateful behavior, rather than maturing and becoming a valued contributing member of society. Sadly this is the type of behavior I often see from these TEA Party extremists. (Dang, he sure says a mouthful there huh? I never really knew how bad a person and citizen I was until I read this account of me) I remember once during the healthcare debate a man in a wheelchair was showing support for the Affordable Healthcare Act. I remember one of the TEA Party members walking up to him, screaming in his face that he would decide who and what to pay for other’s healthcare not the government, and threw a dollar bill in the man’s face. It showed a serious lack of compassion and a strong hatred for the sick, the suffering, and the handicap. (I don’t know if that was true or not, or what the circumstances were, but on face value, I sure do not support that kind of abuse and I take offence to anyone that would insinuate that I would) Bruce Clark, supported by Alan Nebeker, made the exact same remark in his last post saying that he wanted to decide what to pay and who to pay, and not have the government decide. (No, that is not true. We were talking about taking care of the needy and who donates time and money. I said that conservatives would rather give to a cause and know how the money is being spent than donate to the government and have no say in how our money is spent. VERY BIG difference. Why must people twist words and plain out and out lie?) Typically this behavior is driven by greed and selfishness and I suspect the same is true of Bruce Clark and Alan Nebeker who have all been banned from comments on our posts by Facebook due to their hate-filled vicious comments. (I have been banned for hate filled comments? Yet Mark is free in his writings? He sure is proud of his accomplishment as this is the second time he has made this statement) Bruce mentioned that the government doesn’t run things as well as private enterprise therefore the government shouldn’t run social programs that help the poor and the needy and that this should be left to private enterprise. (NO, I never said that. Mark injects this to make me seem very radical and uncaring) Really? I agree the government is not overly efficient most of the time, but they are also not “For Profit.” (so, so what is wrong with “for profit, why is that considered evil and wrong?”) For profit organizations often cost more than government run programs, (the government doesn’t need to make a profit). (Well Mark, I would like to know where you get your numbers. How can you state that "profit organizations often cost more than government run programs”. How do you back this up?) Even if private enterprise is able to run it more effectively and cheaper, here’s the question I have for these TEA Party folk, what’s stopping more private enterprises from running programs that help the needy and the poor right now? (Nothing Mark, who said there was? Many people and organizations are doing great works, you just don't hear about them in the media) Nothing except it’s not profitable. (Mark, how many charitable organizations are out there that are private, having nothing to do with tax payer funding and yet are serving everyday. I think we all could name a dozen or more) So where are all the private enterprises that are taking over so the government does not have to? In society it has never worked, which is why the government must step in and provide the safety net for its society. (well, I agree in part I guess, the government can and does provide a safety net, and I support that. I would only like to stop the abuse so the needy get help and the lazy get none. I would also point out thosecounties that are failing because of their bloated social programs. Greece and Italy come to mind ) The Nazi Party was a lot like the TEA party in some respects. (O-MY WORD, now he is gone off the wall. These types of statements are what raise the hair on the back of my neck, they are fighting words. Hmmm, but face book condones his attacks but censors me? Maybe I am supposed to complain to them like he must have. No, not my style) They didn’t want to take care of the poor, the sick, the disabled, or the elderly so they euthanized them. (WHAT???? What in the world…tell me where the tea party favors this? This is where a Liberal just lose their mind and it shows when they not only say stuff like this but write it down!) Saves money right? Well we know from history how that turned out. I believe the biggest reason enterprise is not adequately filling the gap is due to greed. Look at your billionaires and multimillionaires, the money they have alone, (that they are not using), (not using Mark? What in the world! How do you know what they do with their money and why is it your concern? If you wish them to donate more of their time and money then work towards that end and not attempt to steal it from them though taxes) would be more than enough to take care of the poor, the sick, the needy, and those less fortunate. (There is it my friends, no matter what you were thinking before. Mark now states the rich are greedy and don’t need all that money. So without putting words in his mouth, I believe he wants the government to take that money and give it to those that Mark feels needs it.) In fact if they all just paid a decent wage to their workers, (who help them become successful), it would relieve much of the suffering of the poor. (Now, now he want everyone to believe that all the rich guys don’t pay their poor employees anything but bread and water…my word. This is not correct and is CLASS WARFARE and does nothing to help anyone. It just exposes a socialist attitude) I remember one person saying, it’s their money, so they should be able to do what they want with it. (Yes Mark, if you earn it, you should have the right to spend it how you see fit. This is still America.) Really? They made the “widgets” themselves? I don’t think so, they got there on the backs of their workers for which they should be grateful. When their workers are not able to make it on the wages paid while the CEOs and owners have a billion times what they need to make it, that’s not gratitude. (Say that is all true, even if it’s horribly wrong, what would Marks answer to the issue be?) One only needs to look at who supports the TEA Party to see that it is backed by these same wealthy people. (Hmmm at all the rally's I saw on TV, I only saw plain hard working folks out there. Moms, Dads, Grandmas and Grandpas and all the kids playing around. Nothing like the liberal Occupy Wall Street protests that had drugs, people urinating in public, trash, open sex, violation of laws and all supported by the liberal media and Democrat leaders including Obama) If they complain about taxes, can there be any real expectation that they would provide for the poor, the sick and the needy? Not that I can see. (That is where a liberal has problems with a conservative. A liberal can’t see anyone helping others just to help them. Liberals believe you have to be forced to help someone and that is where government and taxes come in.) The real reason, I believe, that mr. Bruce probably identifies with these groups is also greed. It appears Bruce and Alan don’t want people touching their money, government or otherwise, (again greed). (NO Mark, it called being responsible for and in control of your own earnings. But he is correct, I don't want anyone stealing my money. I will use it, spend it and donate it as I see fit because by the grace of God, I earned it! I don't want the government spending it on abortions or wasting it by making healthy people dependent on government programs) What people like mr Bruce seem to forget is that most people are not born into money nor marry into money. (What??? I forget what???, This guy sure know a lot about me huh?) They work all their lives to scrape out a living, provide for their family, put food on the table a roof over their heads, pay their medical bills and have little or nothing left over for savings, and must rely on Social Security, food stamps and Medicare for their retirement. (Then if that is true something is very messed up Mark, and the Government is not going to fix it. SS is earned by all those who have worked and paid into it. If people choose to buy big TVs, eat out and spend their money instead of saving, that is their choice. Do not blame someone else because they won't save or invest money throughout their lives. No working person has to rely on food stamps for retirement, that is just over board and a kin to starving old people and babies comments. ) When they discover these social programs are not adequate it leaves them begging for the necessities of life. (MY WORD, NOW IT SOUNDS LIKE EVERYONE HAS TO BEG TO STAY ALIVE IN AMERICA) Not that I would expect Bruce Clark or Alan Nebeker to have compassion on these people but they should be ashamed along with the rest of America for not doing a better job of social governance of the needy. (Well, the man is simply lost to reality. Without listing what I do, I will mention that, as everyone should know, I donate time with Special Olympics and take care of developmentally disabled young adults, one of whom is in a wheel chair. I help DD adults that have had their funding cut 6% because of the financial condition the government is in. I would love to see the needy get all the help we can give them and more, it is money well spent! but to do that we must get rid of the fraud and abuse of the system that robs funds from the needy and gives to the lazy. So when Marks attacks me as greedy and uncaring, well, It just shows how misguided and blinded by his agenda he really is. I', sorry for being so blunt but people that are on disability and taking funds away from the handicapped just because they are to fat to walk, disgusts me! They wheel into line with food stamps and twinkes, they take no responsibly for themselves, but expect that you and I should pay for their lifestyle choices I don't buy into that and will not support them at the expense of the truly needy ) These two individuals don’t seem to understand that because of their own greed, individual hatred, or some other misguided impression of mankind they are becoming the very enemy of mankind to their own detriment. They also seem to not understand the plight of someone who has become injured or sick before they are eligible to collect Social Security, such that they cannot do the job they once did, making them rely on a reduced income or welfare. (I think Mark has a lot of pain and anger from somewhere, but that does not excuse his statements made above.) It appears from their rhetoric that they would kick these people off entitlement and welfare programs because they see them as deadbeats. Bruce Clark went so far as to say they should not be allowed to vote, and only those that contribute to society or own property should be allowed to make the rules for society. (Not true and explained in the first part of this letter, yet he will write his view for all to see and paint me as a monster because I disagree with him) They treasure their guns because they seem to envision a government that will one day take away their money, and if not the government then the poor and needy might steal from them just to get a meal, or clothes, and God forbid that should happen so they must be prepared to fend them off with deadly force. (OK, this is just WAY OUT THERE and I can’t say anything more about that) They appear to live in a fantasy world that moves from conspiracy to conspiracy, finding an enemy under every rock. From language and comments they have made it also appears they treasure their guns, especially assault rifles as they see these weapons as necessary to fight the government. Of course that might be treasonous talk or home grown militia terrorism. (OK, so I believe that the second Amendment protects the right to have an AR 15. A Rifle that I love for shoot varmints with. So in Marks view that makes me a terrorist) Well Bruce Clark, Alan Nebeker welcome to the Homeland security watch list. (Ha ha, been on it for a long time I am sure, so if you sent them a letter about me, I guess they just added it to the pile. But hey, thanks for caring and wanting to protect your country from blood thirsty crazy's like me!) They say they are Christians, but the fact is true Christians are held in the grip of the love of their God the Creator, and can stand tall with no need of weapons of self-defense, or drugs, alcohol or other chloroform masks of wealth, power, fame, or status to protect them from reality. (Whew, he sure has an opinion) True Christians are also good citizens. (Dang, somewhere the Bible also says something about judging others, O well…) The hypocrisy of their lives is simply this, should anyone point out that their behaviors and beliefs might just not be in the best interest of a civilized society, they revert to their draconianism and derisive behaviors attacking the character of the individuals who wish to make a difference in the lives of those who need it most. (Ha ha…I mean I would be offended if these statements where not so totally bizarre) They also don’t seem to understand the proper etiquette of Facebook. (Well dang, that upsets me, I didn't even know I did anything wrong...I feel...so... ashamed...) But, with all that said, we must keep in mind that like all bullies, the reactions of people like this are driven by fear, fear of those who are different, fear of loss of income, fear of the loss of control, fear of the unknown future, especially when that future does not look like anything they recognize. In a reaction to protect themselves, they surround themselves only with others who are just as radical and agree with their distorted view. People like this, who are radical absolutists feel they must vilify anyone who dares to see things differently. Sadly it closes their minds and escalates there pomposity. Their paradigms are locked like a laser on a singular point of focus creating a tunnel vision that blinds them to the universe that surrounds them causing them to destroy anything that gets in their way. We must remember, they are to be pitied, for theirs is a life of desperation and fear that is only half lived. (man, I just love the way he talks, has me convinced, he needs to write a book...dreams of my father!) We must also remember that they, above all, need our love, compassion and forgiveness. (Yep, Mark showers that on all of us right-wingers. I'm sure that was his whole point in this post on his time line, nothing but love and compassion for me the other right-wingers We do not have to agree nor should we agree, we do not have to call their rants of hate “flowery colloquialisms.” We can and should hold them responsible and call it what is, we can and should point out the error of their ways, we can and should stand up for what is right, but we can and should always be willing to forgive while showing them the love and power of the Creator for they need it more than most.
(There it is, the end. Just a note for all who read this, Mark calls himself a preacher and has a congregation. I have no idea if that is true or not. Interesting comments, words and views from a man of the cloth.